Another handout was circulated, this one from a Media Matters Action Network webpage, featuring gun violence statistics and argumentative strategies to be used in discussing the issue with those opposed to gun reform. The “strategies” section highlights the “key message” of gun control advocates: that “Congress chose to legalize the gun that killed these children [in Newtown].” It advises the use of such vocabulary as “preventing gun violence” instead of “gun control,” and “loophole-ridden laws” instead of “lax gun regulations.”
The webpage also lists a series of “excuses and responses,” such as the infamous excuse “guns don’t kill people; people kill people” to which one might respond—as Jon Stewart has on The Daily Show—with an analogy to car deaths: “We don’t shrug and say, ‘cars don’t kill people, drunks do.’ Instead, we required seat belts, air bags, child seats, and DUI checkpoints—and reduced the national traffic fatality rate by nearly 90 percent since the 1950s.” This is only one response of four. The packet features some six pages of “excuses and responses.”
Many of the excuses and responses alike are steeped in misdirectional rhetoric, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t reflect real arguments one might engage in. So what follows are a few, as points of interest:
Excuse: Democrats are politicizing a tragedy to push gun control.
Response: Americans are lifting up the Newtown families in their thoughts and prayers. But politicians owe these families more than condolences and platitudes.
Excuse: We’re defending our freedoms in the Constitution.
Response: Maybe you missed the Declaration of Independence, which defends life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Excuse: The real problem is with our mental health system.
Response: Every society has mentally ill people, but not every society has guns and shootings happening all the time like we do.
One might notice how the final response conveniently ignores the part of the “excuse” having to do with our mental health system by scapegoating the people it is intended to serve; every society does have mentally ill people, but not the same mental health system. Another excuse seems to simply function as a straw man, one more argument to take down and another third of a page to beef up the packet: “Stronger gun laws wouldn’t have prevented the Newtown tragedy because it’s legal to have the guns that the shooter used.” It is difficult to imagine someone actually making this argument, since it so blatantly undermines its own premise; i.e. if we had stronger gun laws, say, making it illegal to have the gun the shooter used, they obviously would help.
Suffice it to say, one expects to find stronger and weaker arguments professed by either side of the debate, and we should think critically before accepting either side’s arguments. And although Bloom and Keith distributed the packet, it is clear they are of a similar mind, choosing not to ascribe to the binary division between right and left.
“Whether you’re a conservative or not, I think the measures being proposed are reasonable,” said Bloom. “Many conservative people and gun owners are for better laws. Those not in favor are people making a lot of money on assault rifles.”
“I grew up going to a shooting club every week,” said Keith. “But sportsmen don’t need high capacity assault weapons. ”
He added, “I want to have someone here trying to explain it to me, without raising their voice, and saying this is why I own one of these things, this is why I think it’s a good idea to have a 15- or 20-round magazine, because I don’t think we can effectively engage with an issue unless we understand it. Each side tends to exaggerate the positions of the other side. So in terms of a local discussion, we need to make it clear that people in favor of regulation are not the loony left wing of gun haters they are made out to be, and people in favor of gun ownership are not all Ted Nugent; they’re not all crazy gun-toting survivalists.”
The meeting closed out after participants assumed tasks for the coming weeks, including circulating petitions and letters, as well as researching sympathetic organizations and brainstorming for future discussions and events—and of course, recruiting people for future discussions.
The next meeting of the yet-unnamed group will take place Jan. 31 at 7 p.m. at the Inquiring Mind bookstore at the corner of Main and Partition Streets.
To refute the refutations:
Re: Cars
Your right to operate a vehicle “without infringement” isn’t codified in the Constitution. Apples and oranges.
Re: Newtown
The refutation there is a nice dodge and all, but misses the true point which is that Democrats *are* standing on the graves of the Newtown victims and using them as a bully pulpit.
Re: Declaration of Independence
[a] The Declaration of Independence is not in any way the basis of law in the United States. It is a declaration of war against Britain. The Constitution – which includes the 2nd Amendment – is, in fact a basis of law in this country.
[b] YOUR nebulous undocumented right to “feel safe” doesn’t trump the codified right of gun owners to have uninfringed keeping and bearing of arms.
Re: mental health system
Really? The United States is the only place in the world with shootings? How about those kids in Norway?
So , the Liberals think they Finally “defeated” the great Evil NRA (those money making capitalists) and showed the NY Gun Owners how fast our rights can be taken away.
You can enjoy it, for now …but when the party’s over , you should read up on how prohibition worked out.
Then think about the 100’s of Thousands/millions of unregistered Rifles/Shotguns/Pistols with Hi-Capacity Mags that will now be worth a fortune on the Black Market.
They were safer in Law abiding Citizens hands ..that’s history now.
They’ll come in from small towns and cities across the State ..and all end up on NYC Streets . Why the Cities you ask ?
The major Drug Dealers/Gangs & Criminals are all there , and they can afford to pay top dollar ..and soon they’ll have the latest in Hi-tech Assault Weapons to chose from.
Cuomo did away with the Grandfather Clause that allowed us to keep the Hi-Cap magazines we legally owned ..the State is now mandating that we sell them out of State.
NY has no idea what people own so , imagine how many of those Magazines will also end up on the Streets ,with those Criminals.
And you were all so paranoid about the NRA & “Gun Nuts” because you had nothing else to blame , no understanding of Firearms or Laws alreadt in force ..so you target us ?
How will you explain the jump in NY Crime rate stats next year ?
Hey ! you got what you wanted
Invite Soros and , Enjoy the party
In answer to Derek:
Read the entire Second Amendment not just the part you like.
It says:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
‘Well Regulated’ gives the Federal Government the power to regulate guns whether you like it or not. Even Judge Scalia agrees on that point!
If you had any knowledge of history you would know that the English Army would augment it’s ranks by recruiting ‘Militia’, from the districts in England, that was made up of private citizens who owned and were trained in the use of ‘arms’. That is where the Second Amendment has it’s roots. The ‘Militia’ also augmented the Colonial Army in the Revolution so our Founders saw the value in having a citizen ‘Militia’ but they wanted it to be ‘well regulated’ not an unruly mob of people who would be of no value to the military should the need arise.
In essence it is Derek and the NRA that want to rewrite the Second Amendment not the people interested in a ‘well regulated Militia’. The Second Amendment is not Carte Blanche on gun ownership.
According to the latest FBI Crime Report the South,(which has the most lenient gun laws), has 41% of the violent crime in the US. The Northeast,(which has the strictest gun laws), has 16% of the violent crimes. Gun control works regardless of what the gun lobby wants everyone to believe!
No one is addressing the lack of better mental health care facilities? That is why we are seeing more and more mass murderers. They have no where to turn to get help. The law also was changed I think around 1980 hat ONLY mentally ill patients can admit themselves and no one else. We all know that they don’t think they are mentally ill. The old law stated that a parent/family member, together with two professional psych drs. could evaluate a patient and based on their dianosis could have the person either committed for further treatment in a mental facility till better or recommend medication to take at home. If we returned to that practice we will see less and less mass murderers. Taking them off the street helps them and saves society needless heartache losing people to mentally ill rampages.
I’ll bet Bloom is exaggerating his experience with firearms. I know someone who spoke exactly like him. When we took this guy out hunting someone had to bring an extra shotgun to loan the guy because he did not own a gun at the time, he stuck his finger in the triggers all the Time, had no muzzle awareness, and ended up shooting my buddy in the hand (luckly with birdshot and at a distance). Yet every “extremist gun nut” I’ve gone shooting with handled their firearms safely. Bloom and his following are nothing but a bunch of posers at best.